October 16, 2024; TM Changes, OTP Restrictions, Lysted Changes & More
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Introduction (00:00-00:34)
Overview of the call’s importance due to major industry developments.
Mention of key topics, including Coldplay, Ticketmaster updates, and general ticket reselling insights.
Ticketmaster OTP Changes (00:34-13:02)
Ticketmaster now requires OTPs via phone numbers for account actions, replacing email options.
Impact on resellers using third-party phone services.
Context provided regarding data breaches and increased security measures, particularly for Taylor Swift tickets.
Potential long-term effects and advice on using services like TextChest or RedPocket for phone lines.
General Reseller Challenges (13:02-18:30)
Ticket reselling’s evolving landscape compared to other industries like Amazon.
Adapting to constant changes is critical for success.
Encouragement for persistence despite challenges.
Eagles & WrestleMania Announcements (18:30-35:20)
New Eagles shows at the Sphere in Las Vegas during March Madness—highlighting resale potential.
Sign up for unique presale codes on the Eagles' website.
Upcoming WrestleMania presales: historical resale trends, expected pricing, and tips for participation.
Lysted Platform Changes (35:20-45:08)
Overview of the Lysted platform and its role in ticket reselling.
New restrictions for resellers with under $50K in annual sales, moving them to a "pay after event" model.
Alternatives to Lysted, such as StageFront Consignment and other consignment services, discussed.
Metallica, Linkin Park, and Other Events (45:08-51:58)
Discussion of the Sick New World festival in Las Vegas featuring Metallica, Linkin Park, and others.
Advice against reselling festival tickets due to logistical challenges, including wristbands and uncertain capacities.
Expected sellout dynamics and pricing behavior.
Coldplay Ticket Strategy (51:58-58:44)
Coldplay tickets expected to appreciate due to limited supply and high demand.
Recommendation to hold tickets until spring for maximum profit.
Tracking ticket prices weekly to understand market behavior.
Closing Remarks (58:44-End)
Encouragement to listen to the recording and stay informed.
Teaser for upcoming events and advice for maximizing reselling opportunities.
Sign-off and gratitude to participants.
(00:00) must be spinning at just every day it's just a new [ __ ] nightmare on stuff so anyway uh I'm glad we have a platform and a and a space to talk about all this tonight and I hope that those who can't make it tonight I I do I I really I would appreciate it if after the fact uh I don't know how you post like the recordings and stuff but if you could make an extra push for this one specifically because what we'll talk about out of the gate is just so important I don't have a ton of details but I can certainly give backstory and
(00:34) context um and and that kind of stuff but uh yeah so um what do we have who let's see what are we what we working with tonight um it's just myself and Kelvin now but I do believe have more faces pop in here shortly sure that's totally fine um I I probably have like I said I I have an ear flight to Vegas tomorrow so I probably have a hard stop at around uh 9:00 Eastern um but you know again uh well we can certainly wait around a little bit I want as many people to join us as possible um we can get started and like
(01:19) of course we always have a no we no I I didn't mean to no we're good I mean you know we're going to spend probably half uh you know half the time talking about all the new developments we'll talk about Coldplay a little bit uh I would like to talk about some sports and stuff just so we don't only talk about doomsday sky is falling [ __ ] but uh yeah anyway getting back to what you said um you know did did okay on um Coldplay uh did did not you know lucky to walk away with any tickets um but you know they they they Ticket Master has been
(01:57) very uh aggressive about banning proxies and banning subnets and uh those two browsers that we talk about all the time jansy and Insomniac uh they've figured out a way to prevent a lot of people using those tools from even entering the waiting room so it it's just uh that's part of the reason that prices for Coldplay are so high uh because Ticket Master has done such a great job over the last 30 to 45 days of not really just clipping this thing at the source which is they figured out a way to prevent people that they think are using
(02:42) proxies or other [ __ ] like that not even a bot I we're talking about Bots right now uh just foxies and and stuff like that they they found a way to prevent a lot of those people from even entering the waiting room so um yeah so that's that's partially why you know to bring it back home to a tangible item that you can see uh that's part of the reason why you know you have very low ticket counts for Coldplay I mean typically a stadium a major Stadium show will have anywhere from six to 9,000 tickets available for
(03:17) resale and a lot of these Coldplay shows have like 1,200 to 2,000 and these shows are 9 months away so that's part of the reason is because Ticket Master has been so aggressive about just proxy stuff and and they have figured out a lot of things that we thought they would never figure out about how to stop us so uh pulling my hair out but uh certainly is good news for anybody that did get tickets because prices are certainly have already exceeded my highest expectation so um yeah but it was a frustrating day it
(03:55) really was Friday was a frustrating uh a frustrating situation uh so but I haven't uh yeah I haven't listed any of my Coldplay haven't done anything with it um I think you know based on everything that we just talked about uh these low ticket counts um you know you got a tour that's nine months away if you have 2,000 tickets available for resale let's just say uh 9 months times 30 days is 270 2500 tickets divided by 270 that means that that on average 10 tickets a day would need to sell on StubHub or on the secondary for those stadium shows to
(04:41) be completely you know wiped clean uh just yeah so when you talk about it like that and you zoom out a little bit it's like holy [ __ ] man next spring we could totally see some outof control Coldplay stuff because people decide they want to go they you know they now can make plans for the late summer and uh they're going to be very very low inventory I think um didn't mean to go on a tangent there but uh yeah man it's just uh this is all I think about all day so that's that's kind of what's been going on since
(05:14) Friday it's just been uh my screen time has gone up significantly which I'm never a fan of but um I suppose anyway what I was just G to mention I suppose with this like those that are able to navigate and figure out ways through in the end for those that are sticking with it which I imagine you are it'll probably end up being more profitable overall and it'll probably deter those people more kickers yeah I mean here's the deal it's uh and I try to stress this a lot but you know tickets is is all has always and will always be
(05:54) a a cat and mouse game ticket you know uh Ticket Master will put up some barrier of Entry trying to prevent resale I mean just to give you an example uh like 2009 the or 2010 maybe the the big their big new invention uh was called paperless ticket and what that meant was you buy the tickets and then you have to bring the actual physical credit card to the show you scan it like going through the gate and they print you out like a boarding pass like you would get on an airplane and so Brokers just started buying on gift cards and mailing the
(06:30) gift card to the buyer so it's just like and that was you know 15 years ago so it's a it's always been a a cat and mouse game and and my I always tell people I say you know don't even bother getting comfortable in tickets because the second you get comfortable they're going to throw a major curveball and and you're going to be you know you're going to be scrambling again so yeah to to to go back to your point the people that are com you know it's really an adapter die situation and for a lot of people that are just getting into this uh it's
(07:03) probably a little overwhelming because they haven't even figured out how it all works yet and and they've they've got to uh deal with curveballs and and trying to adapt and stuff so but yes uh the difficulty of the industry the constant difficulty will deter a lot of people who are looking for um kind of a a point and click PS5 type money printer which is kind of what we've been in in this Taylor landscape um so yeah a lot of people will throw their hands up or give up and and which is totally fine you know that's kind of uh High you know uh
(07:47) High aggravation High reward the people that stick with it I think it'll be it'll it'll certainly be worth it but yeah man uh it's tough being in an industry that just you can't ever get comfortable you always got to just be moving just thinking about the next problem that could arise a lot of us are from the Amazon world and it's the exact same way like just just recently like a [ __ ] ton of Brands just got locked down on people so like if you had inventory in that all a sudden just overnight you can't sell
(08:16) it and you're stuck with all this inventory and that happens all the time with Amazon yeah exactly I would certainly say that Amazon is probably the uh most comparable opponent to Ticket Master obviously a lot different just because uh you know just different different headaches different Hoops to jump through but Amazon is constantly trying to throw curveballs and uh you know some people either they it's not their full-time gig so it's a part-time thing and they don't have the time to sit around all day and and try
(08:50) to troubleshoot these these new issues constantly which is understandable but yeah man it's it's it's a it's a Catch 22 because I feel I obviously want to help for people that are frustrated by the constant just like change up stuff from Ticket Master but at the same time uh it it will certainly weed out some of your uh some of your weekend Warriors so to speak that are kind of looking for a quick buck and and and getting out so it's a it's a it's a two-way two-way sword there so um anyway uh what up were we waiting on someone
(09:37) specific that you that said they were going to join uh no like we just like we see like the interest in like the event like like they're interested so like there are more people that mention they're interested but we can certainly get started it's not a big deal yeah sure and um uh sorry what's the other person in the chat what's their username right now it's Kelvin oh Kelvin uh yeah apologies I will probably repeat uh some of the stuff I just said during this don't worry about me I'm a new well that's okay that's okay um look we're
(10:09) gonna have a small group tonight so like I want to get through some of the stuff that I just talked about in in deeper depth um just because people will be listening later uh but look I I would like to keep this very personable so it kind of caught at the beginning that you're doing Amazon books right now and and you're kind of looking to diversify what you're doing which is great and fantastic um so you know I would encourage you that please like I'm gonna TR I'm GNA get into the more advanced stuff just because it's
(10:40) important but I want to Circle back around and and if you would like to talk more about beginner level stuff tonight because that's what would help you the most like you're the one who dedicated the time so like I want to I want to make sure we get you content that will help you as well so once we get through that I I may be thinking about just some of your intro level questions that you might have and don't be afraid of that they're dumb or whatever because I promise you I've answered them 500 times um so yeah there no no dumb question but
(11:12) yeah while I'm going through all of the first like maybe 15 20 minutes of this thing be thinking about some of the questions that you might have um you may not know what all your questions are and that's okay uh but be thinking about some of your questions uh because after I get through this first 20 minutes I want to Circle back and and make sure we cover some beginner content for you as well so you get something out of it all good for sure um I'm ready whenever you are Jordan yeah we are ready oh cool um all
(11:46) right so thanks everybody for joining um if you are listening later uh welcome to you as well uh I am chokey I am your ticket provider uh if you have not done one of our voice calls before number one one shame on you uh number two we keep it real casual keep it real light AMA style format um you can either uh interrupt me which is totally fine uh and ask your question you don't need to raise your hand or anything like that uh or if you don't feel comfortable talking then you can certainly do it in the voice Channel chat um but uh yeah so
(12:22) we'll do AMA style format and then I will fill in the gaps with just other stuff uh in between those questions um I want to jump right into stuff because I don't want this to run 90 minutes like we've been doing before even though I love it uh so right out of the gate I want to talk about what happened this morning why it's important um and kind of what what it means for the future of the industry uh for those of you who have no clue what I'm talking about um late last night uh Ticket Master made it so that in order to essentially
(13:02) do anything on the website from enter a que change your password uh transfer tickets which is probably the biggest one uh it used to be that uh you needed you needed to request an OTP code which was pretty standard but you had the option of doing that code via email or phone number um and Ticket Master changed that late last night to only having the option to request otps via phone number for some of you who are working with only a couple of accounts you might be using either your own actual phone number or the phone number
(13:42) of family or friends this probably won't affect you a ton um for anyone that is using phone numbers from a ticket friendly service um from van fan verified or any other online number that you may not have access to uh this creates a a pretty substantial problem um both in the short term because uh there are several huge tours happening this weekend the Eagles are in Vegas uh Taylor Swift's tour resumes in Miami and you now have a situation where people have sold these tickets uh and they're not able to transfer their tickets because they
(14:27) don't have access to the phone number that is required to retrieve that OTP um so that has created kind of a h a severe panic mode about what this means is it permanent um and so just to give everybody a little bit of backstory about kind of how we got here um You probably heard in the news or around Discord uh maybe three or four months ago there was a major major major data breach um from Ticket Master and I don't know what the number is but a substantial hundreds of millions of people's um Ticket Master emails and
(15:12) passwords were leaked and so the domino effect that has created is that bad actors um have essentially been using that data breach to log into a ton of Ticket Master accounts and they are stealing valuable tickets out of those accounts the most popular one is Taylor Swift um which you know uh is a pretty penny if if if you've seen prices so uh couple of weeks ago uh the CEO of uh Live Nation was on the Today show I believe um if you have not seen that interview I would highly recommend watching it Jordan I can work with you
(16:01) if you can't find it but I would defin definitely think it would be uh good content to to look that up I believe it's Michael rapino that was on uh that was on the Today show I don't recall exactly but it was the CEO of either Ticket Master or Live Nation uh and it was maybe from like a week or two ago but he was on The Today Show and did about a 20 minute interview about these security problems people stealing tickets out of the account and essentially promised that The Ticket Master was taking measures to uh beef up
(16:31) their security uh in a big way uh they did two things number one for Taylor Swift specifically they turned off transfer alog together uh until for uh 72 hours before the show so these are or tickets that people bought uh 13 14 months ago and they went on sale transfer has been open the entire time um and suddenly transf is now closed so if you had not transferred your tickets you now cannot do so until 3 days before the show of which the first of which are this weekend in Miami so then on top of that you now have you can't even
(17:14) transfer unless you have access to the phone number uh that is on your ticket master account and the other kind of thing that's lingering here is you might just think well why don't you just change the number on your account to a number that you actually have control over not that simple uh Ticket Master had is requiring an OTP to from your phone number to change your phone number which might be the most [ __ ] up thing I've heard in a while but that's kind of where we are um if you are new to this or just starting out you may not uh you
(17:49) may not properly grasp what a potentially industry changing situation this is um it is a big big big big deal uh there are two ways this plays out number one this is a temporary thing that will go away once the Taylor Swift dates are over uh which would be like the first week of December she's got four cities left uh between now and the first week of December the 8th is the last show rip um so either it will remain in place until until Taylor is over and then they will turn the security down and things go back to
(18:30) normal or this will be a permanent fixture um which if that ends up being the case uh those of you who are newer and have expressed interest in scaling um this will be the the time where you would be forced essentially to purchase phone lines from a service like text chest that is TE x t c h s or seat Heroes s e a t h e r o e s I believe those run somewhere like n to $10 a line which may not sound like a lot but it adds up if you're trying to buy you know dozens of lines um there is also a cheaper option I believe called red
(19:22) pocket red like the color pocket like in your jeans um I have not used red pocket but I know a lot of people have had success and I do believe they are the cheapest option um you might be thinking why can't I just use Google Voice or another free uh Voiceover IP Service uh tick Master is way smarter than that uh they uh any Voiceover IP numbers do not work or cooperate with Ticket Master it has to be a physical stim card real phone number that exists um so uh for those of you who have been looking to scale or trying to scale um my
(20:04) suggestion would be to probably sooner rather than later uh start looking into some of these Services because if this if we get to Monday or Tuesday of next week after this first round of tayor shows and this has not gone back to normal um you will start to see uh those Services there's only so many of them and they only have so many lines uh those services will start to sell out very quickly because suddenly everybody needs that service so just it kind of a heads up that's kind of what's going on this all has happened over the course of
(20:40) the day today uh so um I don't have any inside info um other than that but uh my advice anyone that plans on staying in tickets longterm uh I would recommend being proactive about find a solution to this potential problem wait uh rather than waiting until uh it becomes a permanent fixture because by then uh all of these Solutions will probably be unavailable or sold out um so that is kind of the biggest news that everyone's talking about today um it you know super unfortunate but again tickets as you may have seen if you've been in this thing
(21:27) longer than a cup of coffee uh there is there is no such thing as getting comfortable in the ticket industry I have been doing this for 22 years and I have watched this industry go from buying tickets H at the grocery store and getting hard stock tickets to take home with you into printable PDFs uh into the the mobile ticket era that we're kind of in now so the ticket industry is always changing Ticket Master is always trying to implement new things and Hoops for resellers to jump through to make our lives difficult um
(22:03) and or impossible uh and so if you're kind of listening to this right now thinking holy [ __ ] uh I don't I you know I don't know what to do um this is certainly something that you need to pay attention to and be educated about and keep up with um if if you have any kind kind of plan to be in tickets uh Beyond like the end of this year um so that's kind of what's going on uh Jordan do you have just based on what all of that do you have any questions on behalf of yourself or potential questions you think members might have just about all
(22:48) of that and any other additional color I can I can paint on that situation yeah so like what would be your opinion on utilizing something like say eims because I know quite often e Sims from companies obviously it's a pain in the ass where we have to uh change out of our phone in some cases in some cases they're virtual but a lot of those can be obtained for very cheap absolutely um that is going to be the cheapest route to solve this problem it is also the most frustrating and labor intensive um option but yes I mean esms
(23:24) are absolutely an option uh I know that you can get you know you can get you can get SIM cards at places like uh 7-Eleven and stuff uh but obviously you need a a a flip phone or something that can read that SIM card um and again the whole goal in all of this is you need to be able to quickly retri and efficiently retrieve those otps that will not come possibly will not come through email anymore they will only come through text message um and if that sounds like not a big deal keep in mind that the waiting room does not open until 15 minutes
(24:03) before the any sale so all of this has to happen in 15 minutes and you have to join the queue before it goes live at the top of the hour so we're talking about a 15minute window uh to do you know if you only have five accounts and you need to change out five SIM cards that's not a a big deal uh just to put things in perspective I have 5700 accounts um so that is not physically possible possible from I mean I don't enter every queue with 5700 accounts but even a 100 uh it's not possible to to switch out 100 stem cards
(24:37) and retrieve otps and stuff in 15 minutes so um for those of you that uh like problem solving or want to get ahead of this thing um that is definitely eims is definitely your best option um Jordan I don't utilize esms for reasons I just mentioned I I'll happily Point people in the right direction and offer any knowledge that I have um so if you're interested in doing that don't hesitate to DM me or Jordan uh but just keep in mind um my handson experience uh and and troubleshooting um will be limited and and I I am not the the Best Buy Geek
(25:17) Squad on SIM cards so I can't I won't be a ton of help if you run into issues but I am here to present possible solutions to problems um so yeah e e are definitely an option and for a lot of people um you know previously the the real reason that the that people have all these phone numbers is because verified fan the the the ticket sign up lottery uh used to be very very prevalent every Tour on Earth used verified fan including the Taylor Swift tour um and so you needed phone numbers to uh they they would text codes
(25:56) they would not email them they would text them and so that is kind of where the whole phone number craze came from uh verified fan has really died off since the end of last year we've only had maybe like three or four verified fans all year this year we used to have anywhere from five to seven a month um so um oh I forgot where I was going with that uh but um yeah the the the esm cards is definitely going to be your your cheapest option uh if if that sounds too labor intensive or obnoxious uh there are services that I mentioned
(26:33) earlier and they run roughly about 9 to10 per line per month um and you know if this ends up becoming the new normal then those uh that 10 that that fee per month will easily pay for itself because you'll need that phone number every to do literally anything on Ticket Master any day so so some people found it hard to justify the cost when you were only getting you know a verified fan lottery every two to three months uh but if this becomes the the permanent new normal then you'll be utilizing that uh every day or as often as you're buying tickets
(27:16) so the the cost becomes a little easier uh to swallow but yeah that's that's e that's eims does this also impact uh ticket like Sur accounts whatsoever it it am surrendering accounts would no longer be viable yeah because uh you would need phone access uh or you know uh SIM card access so yeah surrendering uh surrendering uh did I lose you oh no he left um yeah so account surrender uh would C run into issues as well um and so yeah it's it's kind of a big mess uh you know Ticket Master artists are are really throwing all their [ __ ] against
(28:11) the wall uh because you know every major tour since the pandemic has been just outrageous on the secondary for the most part which has been great for us but um at some point fans get really pissed off and tired about it and and bands and and Ticket Master are trying to do things to to limit it as much as possible so then as far as we foresee right now like account surrenders will will not be viable until this changes yeah um I don't want to say that openly because this is a brand new situation and again it's it's an it's a
(28:49) fluid situation it's evolving um we don't even know you know this could all go back to normal on Monday after Taylor Swift uh in Miami plays off this weekend and then the last 20 minutes is pretty much null and void but I I am you know you always you always have to anticipate the worst in tickets and hope for the best uh so I am anticipating the worst and and trying to provide commentary and solutions if the worst ends up becoming the reality sure but as far as account you know we we will know more about this
(29:26) uh next week for sure um but you know it's really hard to give broad strokes and and it's really hard to zoom out right now and say what all this will look like in in six months because if you think back six months ago from today it's like you know it feels like the game changes like every two months now so anyway uh yeah I will certainly you know anything pertinent I will keep everyone updated on post updates on or whatever uh but um yeah for now uh I don't have a ton of like long-term answers because this is kind
(30:05) of a brand new thing and we don't really know the scope of it yet for sure um what other any other questions about that specifically I don't right now but I imagine in near I will sure so let's I want to move on to some happier things um first and foremost I'll get a post out about this tonight but we we have been blessed with four more Eagle shows I don't even know what the f the count is now I think it's either 28 or 32 shows at the feere in Vegas um you know Eagles has been one of the best most profitable tours of the Year thus far uh
(30:49) which if you told me that January 1 I probably would have laughed in your face um but it has been very profitable uh obviously the more shows you add the uh the more Supply you put out there uh and and you know the lower prices are probably going to be uh the significant thing about these Eagle these new Eagle dates is they are in March in Las Vegas at a brand new attraction venue like the sphere uh what else happens in in big in Vegas in March uh March Madness uh it is the most attended uh event in Vegas so I
(31:27) believe some of those shows fall on like the opening weekend of March Madness which is the single biggest weekend of the year in Vegas so that certainly plays a factor um there will be a lot of March Madness uh people with money out there who want to see the sphere and want to see the Eagles so I definitely um encourage you if you just go to the Eagles website I will post all of this but if you go to the Eagles website um you can sign up for codes um and the codes are unique and everybody gets a code so it's not a
(32:01) lottery situation so if you have any interest in Eagles next week um I would encourage you to go to their website and sign up for those codes sign up a couple of different times uh so you have different codes to use and um yeah that takes like three seconds to do and uh it might come in handy big time next week so that's uh that's something going on the other kind of big thing that we have on the horizon uh we have WrestleMania on sale um it goes on public sale next Friday so I would assume the pre-sales would start like
(32:39) either Tuesday or Wednesday uh just for a little backstory for those who don't know uh I used to do all the ticketing for WWE for about six years um and so I am I'm also a lifelong wrestling fan uh so I have a lot to say about a lot of things wrestling we will talk about about WrestleMania extensively uh the gist of it will be this um you know everybody saw how insane WrestleMania re resold for this past year 2024 uh Wrestlemania 40 um you know because of that a lot of people it's on the radar of a lot of people that may not have
(33:20) bought otherwise so you'll have a lot more buyers this year um I think a lot of people will go in expecting that WrestleMania does that well does as well as it did this year every year I'm not saying that won't be the case uh but it is important to note that um when something does well and it's reoccurring the next year effort does well a lot more people will buy it and typically that means that prices will go down obviously wrestling is Sport adjacent so it will depend a lot on kind of the the matches they they put together and stuff
(33:57) like that um it is taking place in Las Vegas uh so uh that that certainly makes it very interesting uh it will be very expensive um however it will be very expensive however it will not have a delivery delay WWE never has a delivery delay uh so there will be no delivery DeLay So if you are still um if you are getting paid on delivery from listed or whoever uh then you will not need to wait until April to get paid on that which is certainly a plus um but WrestleMania will pricewise will range from like $50 all the way up to probably
(34:38) eight or $9,000 face value for those ringside premium seats so uh and it's two nights so it's like 160,000 seats over two nights um so that's a lot of territory to cover without knowing the pricing ahead of time uh so I'll do my very best to break down that as much as possible I'm trying to get a price a seating chart that breaks down all the pricing um so that everybody can kind of know what to expect going in but all of this is to say WrestleMania is a big one we will talk about it next week um it will be a as far as I know a
(35:20) generic password situation I will post the link for they have a sign up for a a link for pre-sale stuff uh but I can't remember the last time WWE had a unique code but I will include it just in case because the one time I don't include it will be the one time they do unique codes um but yeah that's certainly something to look forward to next week uh already a big week next week with WrestleMania and those four new Eagle shows so if you feel like you missed the boat because uh you didn't participate in Oasis or you didn't participate in
(35:53) Coldplay um uh then uh you know there there's there's always another ticket to buy and there's already two huge ones for next week that we will certainly talk about um in depth a little bit uh any questions about that Jordan on behalf of yourself or uh the community as a whole not specifically for those but like you had mentioned the delivery delay like was listed so like if we have time I'd also like to discuss like the recent changes with listed as well consider absolutely like their pay after event structure now
(36:31) yeah um we can just dive into that right now so uh listed is the platform that uh most people on Discord utilize um it is significant because it is essentially a home base for all of your tickets so you link your email accounts your Ticket Master accounts with listed it you buy the tickets it pulls in your tickets automatically so you don't have to make mistakes uh inputting that information manually and then it puts all of your tickets out there on every single Marketplace StubHub Vivid Seats seat geek tickpick like 12 or 13 of them and
(37:07) then when they sell one place they get it automatically gets taken down everywhere else so it is a pretty and then the other big uh perk for listed up until recently was if you use step Hub as an individual seller you're getting paid 10 to 12 Days After the event happens so for something like WrestleMania goes on sale in November event happens in April so you're not getting paid until at the end of April uh versus listed which would pay you out when you delivered your tickets which could be the same day you bought them if
(37:43) you decided to sell them then obviously that makes a huge difference on cash flow um so most people on Discord that are have gotten into tickets over the since the pandemic are using listed um you know there's positives and negatives there unfortunately one of the big glaring negatives is you've had a lot of people uh coming in from and no disrespect to anybody here who does any of this it's just kind of the way it's happened but you've had a lot of people coming in from sneakers uh Amazon uh ps5s gpus pandemic retail stuff um and
(38:24) so they are coming from a much different industry uh a little more black and white uh than tickets and so you know they have quickly found out that uh tickets is not like stockx where if something goes up you can just cancel the order and like it's not really a big deal uh cancelling or busting an order in tickets for any reason whether uh you decide you wanted to try to get more money for them because you undersold them and canceled the order or uh your order got canceled by buy Ticket Master and it's not your fault but you already
(39:00) sold them uh you know you got to deal with that as well so there's been a huge huge influx over the last two years uh of busted orders and a lot of those are attributed to uh Discord users using listed uh and and essentially it's created a very negative thing in the industry overall uh and so that uh and yeah and also there was a lot of fraud happening people would join listed they probably didn't have as much security uh and and background verification in place as they should have so people were joining listed selling a bunch of
(39:44) tickets uh sending the buyer fake tickets or the wrong tickets or whatever getting paid and then running off and disappearing and uh so you had just a lot of fraud related things a lot of busted orders uh from new people in the industry uh and so recently listed made the change of if you do not uh have if you do not have more than $50,000 in sales over the last six months 12 months I can't remember uh but 50 12 months um if you if you do not have $50,000 then in sales then you would move from a uh the typical pay on
(40:27) delivery mode to getting paid after the event which is pretty crippling for a lot of smaller guys who are just trying to get started and build their cash flow so there's not really anything there's no solution there um there's really nothing that can be done there are other services uh that do something similar to listed if you are interested in looking into those um the proper IND return for them is Consignment companies uh ticketing Consignment companies and essentially what that means is um they are a company that is pulling together
(41:10) the tickets of all of their users that use their service like listed uh pulling together all that inventory and sale numbers gets them a larger discount and other perks which is why listed users get to enjoy those discounts um so yeah there are other Consignment companies out there uh I believe one is called soldout shows I think they're dis they're Discord based I don't know much about them all I know is they don't let you price your own tickets so like you basically give them your inventory uh or tell them the inventory
(41:48) you have and then they sell it for you and then you get a percentage of that sale I don't know what their numbers look like what their fees are but I do know they do not allow you to price your own tickets which automatically makes me hate them uh but for some people who do this casually and do it as a part-time thing as a side hustle uh that could certainly be a uh possible alternative to listed that is I believe it's soldout shows SOS not to be confused with shows on sale um but I believe it's called soldout shows I don't know any other
(42:23) information about that unfortunately but I'm sure you you can find them uh the other one that I know of is called um stage front Consignment they are based out of B they are based out of uh just outside DC in Maryland uh I have been friends with those guys uh for almost 20 years they are veterans of the industry they have been around since the mid 1990s um and uh they do not he the big difference between stage front and that a stage like you perform on front like the front of the line stage front Consignment um uh the big difference
(43:02) there is uh they don't cater to Discord users new folks the way that that listed did or does um so if you're going to go the route of stage front um my advice to you would be to kind of put your Discord [ __ ] uh aside and and uh speak to them in a professional business Acumen type way uh because like I said and mentioned because of all the problems and fraud that list that Discord users and sneaker kids have caused in this industry um I I would say that sneaker kids are are certainly very unpopular amongst longtime OG Brokers so those are
(43:53) a couple of Alternatives uh soldout shows is probably going to be more up people's alley but again if this is more of a long-term thing for you and you really would like to get on that pay on delivery thing um and listed is not doing it for you um stage front uh um stage front Consignment is an option there is also uh logitics which is logg I tix I believe logitics um they have a point of sale as well uh but again these are all solutions for people that are not buying a pair of tickets a month you know if you're going to do
(44:36) that you you know you probably are better off and List's not doing it for you you're probably better off just selling um as an individual on StubHub and just kind of dealing with the cash flow restrictions uh but for those of you who are really trying to do this as more than just like a casual thing um you will need some kind of solution if you're not on pay on delivery with listed um so there are other options and I would encourage you to to uh explore those and again if you have any questions about what these companies do
(45:08) or if they're legitimate um uh you know feel free to DM me I'll be happy to offer context um I have I either know or have been friends with most of these OG guys for a decade to two decades so I can certainly help wherever I can or offer Insight um and commentary for those of you who have questions and all of this is just making your head spin which I totally understand um but yeah so that's kind of that's listed and kind of what's going on there cool thank you what else you got Jordan I was wondering about the to me
(45:47) it seems overpriced but the upcoming sick World Fest like with Metallica like in park do you have any thoughts on that I haven't seen pricing can you lay it out for me uh it looks like from what I the minimum price was 3.99 okay uh is that a two-day festival or one day uh just pulling it back up here show bunch of bands Metallica link Park Queens of Stone Age Evanescence Etc starting at 3.
(46:18) 99 uh it just says April 12th Las Vegas Festival sure oh so it does just say April 12th it's just one day that's what it says yes okay so here's what tends to happen with these Vegas festivals we've seen this happen with uh When We Were Young Fest which uh is more like your your punk and emo kind of Fallout Boy My Chemical Romance bands uh that appeal to a lot of Boomers my age um what happens is these are one- Day festivals and you might be wondering how they do this in one day and the answer is um the stage is uh is is rotating so the so while one
(46:55) band is playing the other band the next band is setting up backstage and then when they're done the stage rotates and so there's no there's no dead time between bands playing so yeah they do all these bands in one day across like three or four different stages um but what happens is the first day will sell out very quickly I assume that the first day is on a Saturday and then they will add that that Sunday with the exact same line up um and and put that on sale immediately so my answer to you is um I typically don't buy festivals or
(47:34) encourage people to buy festivals because number one uh they're expensive as we just talked about and saw with our own eyes um number two uh you almost never know what the actual capacity of a festival grounds is it could be 50,000 people it could be a 100,000 laa palooza is 100,000 in Grant Park in in Chicago uh but but you do not know what that capacity is and they no one is going to tell you what it is so you're essentially guessing how large that capacity is um and how many tickets they're going to sell um and then the
(48:10) third thing and probably the most important is that festivals um festivals do not do electronic tickets uh festivals do wristbands anyone who's been to a festival knows this and so those wristbands get nailed to you physically and then you actually have to when you sell them StubHub or wherever you sold them gives you a shipping label FedEx or UPS and you have to physically drop them off and ship them uh like the year is 2010 and that's what uh that's what things used to be like in tickets you used to take a stack of FedEx envelopes
(48:48) to FedEx and ship out your tickets every day but a lot of people uh for whatever reason that is not within their reach of doing successfully they don't want to deal with hard tickets they don't want to deal with wristbands that sort of thing so those are kind of the uh those are the concerns and the the negatives that I always mention when we're talking about festivals um most people are not familiar with with hard stock tickets uh that get physically shipped because they're so used to mobile tickets um so yeah that is always a surpris no matter
(49:27) how much I bolt and underline there's always one person that's like wait what do you mean uh why are there shipping options I have to choose a checkout uh I Ed a fake address like that always happens so and then on top of that the the the kind of worst case scenario when you're dealing with physical tickets is if you like if the tickets get lost in the mail on the way to you they don't just get reprinted uh the only like solution is to pick them up at will call like at the venue at the show at the festival um and so then it becomes a
(50:01) whole thing where you know you not only got to go out there and pick them up but then you got to figure out a way to like meet your buyers and [ __ ] it's just a big it's a big mess so I I don't recommend festivals a lot uh to new people because there are just so many unique nuances to festivals and often um it is not worth it uh very rarely does a like you know that that Festival would have to get up to like an $800 GA double face to like be worth all of that hassle for most people and and it's very rare that a festival is going to do to get up
(50:40) that High um but that said here's what's going to happen uh Saturday is going to sell out very quickly uh if it's 3.99 I would probably guess it would probably sell right out of the gate for probably 600 so like you're making a nice return um so if you feel comfortable with all of the things I just mentioned about the hard tickets and uh the capacity and all of that stuff the wristbands if that does not bother you and you have a real address and feel comfortable um I I I do believe that will that first day will
(51:17) sell out very quickly it will probably resell nice for a minute and then they will announce that Sunday show very shortly thereafter and then a lot of people that would buy on the secondary uh and pay uh above face will instead go and buy Sunday um so that's that's kind of how that will play out uh you know again it is uh it's a great event if you have the cash flow to spend $800 on a pair you can probably make 350 to $500 on that pair but again because no matter what you're uh paying P structure is listed or anybody else
(51:58) because these are hard tickets that are not going to be shipped until probably 30 days before the festival you are not going to get paid until that after the festival regardless so it's a cash flow tie up as well but there will definitely need money to be made right out of the gates for sure makes sense um I do want to talk about cold plate really quickly uh I I am hoping I I'm I if my memory serves I believe we did have some success with call place and people got uh got some tickets uh last week and I've gotten some DMS from people just
(52:36) kind of you know hey what should I do should I sell these now what's your thought and uh you know we talked about this a little bit in the intro but um tick Master did such a great job of of uh being a thorn in in resellers side and giving them problems a lot of resellers were not able to buy as many tickets as they normally would myself included um and so if you look at any Coldplay show on StubHub um you will see like the number of ticket listings in there uh don't get confused that is not the total number of
(53:13) tickets available it is literally the number of listings so if you assume every listing has four tickets or whatever you can quickly do some math on how many tickets approximately are on StubHub but most of these show have like 1,500 to 2500 tickets available on subhub which might seem like a lot but in a stadium for a major concert like this typically the numbers you would see uh are like anywhere from 7 to 10,000 tickets out of the gate um so we're seeing a fraction of that for cult playay and we have 9 to 10 months uh 8
(53:52) to nine months really uh till these shows happen so my advice and what I'm doing personally I have not listed or priced any of my Coldplay tickets um I do think that cplay will be a very popular Christmas item uh so if you are looking for sales now I do think that once we get to like Thanksgiving and stuff uh cplay will definitely start heating up in some places um because people are buying for Christmas but overall uh my prediction is that when we get into springtime like uh March and April I think a lot of people will start
(54:30) making plans for summer uh planning vacations and whatnot and I think at that time uh we will have significantly less Supply than we do right now and I could easily see you know a lot of these shows are already $3 $400 for nose beds I could easily see some of these shows getting up to like an $800 $900,000 ticket um next spring so if you have cplay my overall advice is probably those prices will go up because there is just not enough uh there's not enough Supply out there the other important thing to consider and
(55:13) probably why there's so much demand to begin with is cplay made an announcement shortly before this tour that they are retiring I believe they they are releasing one more record after the one they just released uh and so essentially they have put uh an end date on their career and they've been around for 25 years they started in 2001 so they've been around for a long time uh and a lot of their fans are older and have money now and so I think what will happen is we'll get what we got with like Elton John's final tour
(55:47) where he just kept extending it and I think the Elton John tour ended up running like two and a half years or something that is essentially what I think will happen with cplay we've got the initial like eight dates right now I think at some point uh They will announce a second leg and then probably a third leg and a fourth leg um but uh they have put a a finale a final uh date or timeline on their career which has created some urgency with Die Hard fans because they're afraid that if they don't see them now they're never going
(56:20) to get to see him which is kind of valid so if you have Coldplay tickets congratulations um you know you're probably not getting paid until next year anyway because there's a big delivery delay on that tour so there's no reason to freak out about selling right now because you're not going to get paid right now anyway so if you you know unless you need that dopamine hit of your ticket selling that bad my hard advice is uh probably keep an eye check check prices once a week monitor how many ticket listings are there go into
(56:53) some specific sections maybe your section that you have tickets and just peep at how many ticket listings are in there when you do that make sure you remember to go into filters on StubHub and turn off recommended tickets recommended tickets means that tickets that are ticket T sorry recommended tickets means that subhub will only show the cheapest tickets in a section and row so if you have the same section and row as somebody else and their tickets are priced cheaper than yours your tickets will remain hidden until their tickets sell so if
(57:33) you want to get the full scope of what is actually out there you want to go into filters on StubHub and you have to do this every time you refresh unfortunately very annoying um but go into filters uh and turn off recommended tickets but I would recommend monitoring that maybe once a week if you're really trying to learn I would have a basic spreadsheet and jot down the pr you know I uh jot down the date the number of listings and like what the price is in your section and keep track of that between now and Christmas and I think
(58:09) you'll start to see that is that's how you learn that's how you learn how to how to price tickets how to predict ticket markets and all that stuff um is it annoying yes is it tedious yes but the people that do that stuff are the ones that really really really get educated about this stuff um um so yeah uh I think cop playay is a great hold there's no point in selling right now anyway even though prices are awesome and I don't really foresee a scenario where prices would take a huge dump at least not until you know next summer I
(58:44) think we will be have a steady rise uh in every city just about as that supply dwindles and uh which will make the the uh the resale prices go higher definitely um yeah that is kind of all I had for tonight I wanted to chat a little bit with our friend who was new but I think he dipped out um because I hadn't taken a breath in like nine solid minutes or something he probably got terrified but um yeah I mean that's kind of all that I have uh like I said I I would lots of important everything in this is pretty
(59:25) important and pertinent and relevant so uh if you could just push it as much as you can encouraging people to download it listen to it in their car or at the gym or whatever um if you're listening to me at the gym I apologize but um I think it's a real some really important topics and I think some some new folks would really get a good education by paying attention and listening 100% yeah um definitely important anything else that you'd like to cover tonight before we jump off of here no I didn't have anything else on my list for
(59:55) this evening awesome um for those listening later my DMs are always open I try to respond same day I don't always get to it but I try really hard uh please note I will be out of town um in Las Vegas with my wife this weekend uh and I have promised her that I would uh turn off Discord notification so if you DM me this weekend I will respond to you Sunday night or realistically Monday uh but other than that big week next week with eagles and WrestleMania uh don't forget to sign up for Eagles codes I will post something about that later on tonight or
(1:00:33) tomorrow morning um and thank you to everybody who listens to this later I appreciate it so much Jordan thank you as always uh it's always a pleasure to have you here I really enjoy these things so uh thanks so much and uh we will chat next month likewise Take Care chokey thank you thanks